How to Help Your Late Talker — Without More Words Ep 158

You talk to your toddler all day long. You narrate everything. 

And still — he's not talking, or not very much. 

So you do what everyone tells you: talk to him even more.

After almost forty years with toddlers and the families raising them, here's what Erin Hyer, speech-language pathologist, can tell you: talking more isn't the fix.

Language isn't built by the number of words you pour in during the day — it's built by the back-and-forth between you and your child.

In this episode, Erin unpacks why "just talk more" is the advice every worried parent hears, where it came from, and why it quietly misses what actually matters.

She breaks down the famous "thirty-million-word gap" and what the research that followed really found, why screens can't build language no matter how "educational" they look, and the one small shift you can start today.

You'll walk away understanding: 

→ Why talking AT your child isn't the same as talking WITH him 

→ The "thirty-million-word gap" — and what came after it 

→ Why screens and apps don't build talking 

→ What "serve and return" is — and how to start it at breakfast, bath, and bedtime stories 

→ The one shift that does more than a thousand more words

Share this with every mom wondering why her little one isn't talking yet.

 📘 FREE GUIDE — The 10 Things That Come Before Talking: CLICK HERE 

📞 Book a Clarity Call with Erin — Click here and let's talk. 

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Talking Toddlers | Erin Hyer, M.S. CCC-SLP Early intervention. Prevention over remediation. Real information for the first three years.

DISCLAIMER:

This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always consult your pediatrician or a qualified health provider with questions about your child’s development or health. The views shared are based on Erin Hyer’s professional experience and are intended to support informed parenting, not to replace individual consultation or care. Every child and family is unique — please use your discretion and consult trusted professionals when making decisions for your child.

📩 Questions: contact@HyerLearning.com
 🌐 www.HyerLearning.com

Transcript

Erin 0:00

your child would talk if he could. He's not refusing, he's not lazy, and he's not being stubborn If he's not talking yet or as much as you think he should be, that's information, not defiance. We do not have a different set of milestones for girls versus boys. We don't expect less from boys at this age. if someone is using your son's gender to tell you to relax, please don't listen to them. The more worried you get, the more you talk. And the more you talk, the more he tunes you out. And the more he tunes you out, the more worried you get. And you see and feel that spiral, and then you both end up hello, and welcome to Talking Toddlers, where I share more than just tips and tricks on how to reduce tantrums or build your toddler's vocabulary. We're gonna cover all of that, but here, our goal is to develop clarity because in this modern world, it's truly overwhelming. This podcast is about empowering moms to know the difference between fact and fiction, to never give up, to tap into everyday activities so your child stays on track. He's not falling behind. He's thriving through your guidance. We know that true learning starts at home. So let's get started. If you've been talking to your toddler all day, when you walk to the mailbox, change his diaper, share a snack at the highchair, turning yourself into a sportscaster for your toddler, and he's still not talking or not talking very much, this is going to feel like a relief. Because talking more isn't the fix. Today, I'm gonna show you what actually builds talking with your toddler First, if you're new here, thanks for joining. I'm Erin, a speech-language pathologist, and I've spent nearly 40 years on the floor with babies and toddlers and the moms raising them. So hear me when I say this: your child would talk if he could. He's not refusing, he's not lazy, and he's not being stubborn If he's not talking yet or as much as you think he should be, that's information, not defiance. But here's the belief almost every mom is carrying: "I just need to talk to him more, and then it will click." That sounds reasonable. It's actually what most pediatricians will say to you, and it's definitely in a lot of those books that we read, and it surely is all over the Internet. Just narrate, and he'll learn. But here's the truth: that's only half the story. Today, I'll show you the one shift that changes everything, what actually comes before the words start popping out, and one small thing that you can try today to put this all into action, maybe at breakfast time or bath time, or maybe when you sit down to share that book. And I put it all together in a free guide, so stick with me to the end and you can grab it So the first question is, who is this information for? If you have a one, two, or three-year-old and a knot in your stomach about his talking, this is for you. But also, if you're holding a brand-new baby or maybe your little guy or gal just learned to sit up and he's starting to take solids, I want you to lean in, too, because this is very important to stay ahead of all of this. Everything I talk about here on this podcast is about getting ahead, building and raising children on purpose from the very start instead of scrambling to try to catch up later on. So lean in and let's walk through this together. Here are the things moms say to me almost word for word, and maybe you've said it too. "He understands everything, he just won't say it." Or you might say, "The little girl next door is putting together all kinds of words and he's not even close." Perhaps you might say to me, "The pediatrician says, 'Don't worry. He's just a boy. Wait and see.'" And underneath all of it is the same question, the one that you rarely say out loud because you're not quite comfortable with where it might lead. You might ask yourself, "Should I be worried?" or, "Am I just overreacting?" And maybe you've even typed that same question into your phone in the middle of the night like, "18 months, not talking. What do I do?" Right? Or, "When should my toddler say his first words?" So, and I think when we do that, like in all of these topics, you end up having a thousand different answers, half of them telling you to relax and give him time, and the other half are kind of scaring you to death. And the truth is, that's a lot of noise, a lot of confusion to you, the mom who's new to this, who's tired and overwhelmed just being mom, right? And so today, let's cut through all of that. Let's first start with the whole comparison question because I think every expert out there will wag their finger at you and say, "Don't compare. That's not fair to your child." But here's my 40 years experience. I've never really bought into that. I've never said that to a parent Because you're a brand-new mom. You don't have a frame of reference yet. Of course, you're looking at your older child or your sister's kid or the toddler down the street. You need data. You need something to measure against. That is, I think, a common behavior, and I don't think that that's a flaw. That's a mom trying to figure out whether her gut is right or not, and, and how do I gauge where my child is and where I am in helping my child grow and learn and develop? So I'm not gonna tell you to not compare, but I will give you other tools to help you measure better. And some of you, I'm sure, have been handed some labels like, "He's just stubborn or, "She's independent," "She's shy," or, "He's just a boy." Those are labels that aren't helpful. We, I think, we as a culture will reach for labels like that because it's comforting. It, it kind of takes the worry away. But comfort and accurate are not the same thing, and I'm always about what's the truth and what's underneath so we can deal with it together. And while we're on it, maybe somebody's reassured you this one: "Oh, he's a boy, and boys just learn to talk slower than girls." I want to stop you right there because that is simply not true. And again, I've been doing this for 40 years. Here, here's the reality. There are subtle differences across kids but also between boys and girls. Sure, a boy can sometimes be more physical, a little more expressive in their bodies and less expressive with their words, especially when you're talking about a toddler or a preschooler. That is true. But there is no separate measuring stick. We do not have a different set of milestones for girls versus boys. We don't expect less from boys at this age. It's all the same. Their style might be different, like I said. So if someone is using your son's gender to tell you to relax, please don't listen to them. It's not good advice. The expectations for both boys and girls at this early developmental stage is the same across the board. Now there is wiggle room within them, and we'll talk about that. But here's what the system handed you instead. And when I talk about the system, I'm talking about the average pediatrician out there, the parenting books, the hundreds if not thousands of moms online, even a lot of other speech therapists. They all say very similar things: just narrate, just talk, talk to him all day, and one day it will click. That's how we learn speech and language. It's sort of like that if you just build it, they will come theory in speech and language world. If you pour in enough words, then the words will start to flow out of him. Now, I want to be fair to that piece of advice because it didn't come from nowhere. There is a thread of truth, but just a thread. Children absolutely need to hear rich, warm, real language, buckets of it, actually. That part is true. They hear or they learn language through us. But here's what happens, and you've watched it hundreds of times in hundred different ways, I think. The system out there will grab a thread of truth from some good research and then kind of flatten it t- so it would fit in their tagline or in their slogan. That's, that's what happens, especially when we're looking at early child development. Talk more was their slogan, right? And, and in that flattening, it actually drops the part that actually matters. Because it's not just talk more, it's really talk more with him. Build that connection through language together. That's the piece that's missing. So if you've been doing exactly what you're told and it's not working, I want you to hear this. That's not failure, per se. You were handed half the instructions. And so my role, my responsibility, is to tell you the whole instruction, right? And I've watched what those half instructions do to very good moms, it kind of splits you guys into two camps. L- let me kinda walk you what, what they would look like. Camp one would turn many moms into Chatty Cathys. And I see this online, I see this in real life. You pick up the ball and you talk so much, so constantly, right, narrate all day, that your child actually begins to tune you out, right? You've become background noise to them, right? Think of it as kind of radio in, in the background in the kitchen. And here's, I think, the cruel part. The more worried you get, the more you talk. And the more you talk, the more he tunes you out. And the more he tunes you out, the more worried you get. And you see and feel that spiral, and then you both end up in this stuck position. He's not really engaging with you because it's too much, and you're getting worried because he's not building like you expected or like the girl next door. And then there's camp two, and I have had dozens of moms over the years in my office almost cry with a sense of relief when I finally explain this to them. Say you're naturally more quiet. You're not the Chatty Cathy k- type. Maybe you're even a little more introverted And so when you hear this advice, narrate all day long, that's torture to you. Because now you feel like you're a bad mom every minute that you're not narrating. Or you're, maybe you're brand new to this whole baby toddler stuff. Maybe you ne- never really babysat or you never really hung out with little kids and, and you say to you yourself or me or somebody else, because I hear this all the time, "Why would I even talk to him? He can't really understand. He can't answer me yet. You know, why do I narrate all day?" And it makes you feel like there's something wrong with you because that's what you've been told, that's what you see, that's what other people are doing. So I want to take that weight off of your shoulders right now, too. This is not a personality test, You do not have to be bubbly, and you don't have to feel like you're on stage and performing all the time. Yes, it's helpful to be playful, and we talk about that, and we'll talk about that more. But it's not like this on switch that you have to flip from s- the beginning of your day to the end of the day. Some of the best language building I have ever watched came from the quietest mamas in the room because they were paying attention instead of trying to fill in the silence. When they did chat with their little ones, it was intentional. It was purposeful, right? It, it connected what they were doing with what they were feeling in that moment. And I'll tell you a little secret that I've shared before, but I want to say it here again. Early in my career, I did not want to work with babies and toddlers, or the truth is, I didn't want to work with any kid. They freaked me out. They were unpredictable. Maybe the older teenager, certainly the young adults. I, I went to acute brain injured because I wanted to deal with full-grown humans. Little ones? Mm-mm. I didn't have any experience with that. And, and the truth be told, I was too uptight. I couldn't relax to be around them, and I made them feel uncomfortable. I didn't know how to play. I never babysat. I, I didn't know how to just be with a child and hang out, especially if they weren't talking. I mean, if they went to a speech clinic, they weren't talking, So I had to learn how to get on the floor. I had to learn how to put myself in an uncomfortable, almost foolish situation, right? I had to learn how to follow a one or a two-year-old's lead and then let him show me where he was and what was interesting to him. It did not come natural to me, and I don't think it comes natural to a lot of us. So when I tell you that you can learn this, I know you can because I'm living proof. So let's reframe all of this. The one idea I want you to walk away with today, talking is not something you install. Talking is an outcome. It is what comes out on the other end when you build with him over time. And you do not build by turning up your word count. That doesn't work. So let me give you a little background of this, and maybe you have heard of a study called the 30 million word gap. Maybe you haven't, but let me just give you a little snapshot so we're all on the same page here, because it matters. Back in the mid to late 1990s, two researchers, Betty Hart and Todd Risley, they set out to study how many words a child will hear at home up from birth until their third birthday. And what they reported actually became quite infamous. The research suggested that by the time a child turns three, kids from higher income homes would hear 30 million more words than kids from lower income homes. That was the big thread out of this big study, and that was the number that just set off a big storm. And from there, it really became a movement, and at least that's what it felt like to many of us who were working in the thick of it. It even shocked us as therapists, but we then started peeling back the layers of the study and what the, what the suggestions were really telling us, right? The takeaway, though, got boiled down to something very, very basic. It simply said more words equals smarter kids Talk more, hit those numbers, and get... Then you can get your kid into schools, you can get your preschooler set for life. This is the be all and end all. More words, smarter kids. But that is not what the research actually said. And when we started looking at it closer, when scientists started teasing it apart, and us clinicians started to look at what's really driving this, and, and the truth is, and if you look this up now, w- they even question the whole 30 million words. It was more or less like three or four million, not 30 million. So that doesn't even hold up. But the thing that actually tracked and differentiated these two groups of kids was not even the socio-economic standpoint, it was really the quality of words and quality of language that was used at home. It was more that, that give and take. And so now we call it the serve and return, you know, just like in that whole tennis where we as the adults will serve and he returns to us, and then back and forth. It's a look, a sound, pointing with your finger, a babble, right? That's that volley back and forth, and that actually does more for building and connecting the brain neurons and synapses than an extra thousand words per day, also, it showed us that it starts much earlier than real hard measurable words, And, and the truth is, I still do this to this day, right? I go out into the grocery store, or a couple of days ago when I was at church, I'll spot a little, a baby or a toddler, and I'll wave to them. You know? Or I'll s- give them a thumbs up and, and give them a wink, a little pa- peekaboo behind my hands. I start a social dialogue with them, and you know what happens? Most of the time those little guys and gals will light up, and they'll serve back to me. A grin, a wave, sometimes they'll hold, out a toy or a blanket. Sometimes they'll look at their mom and dad and look back at me. And a few will actually give me kind of a frown, like a scowl little face and thinking to themselves, "Who's this strange lady trying to, connect with me?" And the truth is, all of that, the frown, the wave, the confirmation from mom, all of that is communication. That baby and that toddler that I just had a whole serve and return, give and take, we didn't even say a single word, but we started a conversation. And that's the thing that you are building at these first 12, 18, 24 months. And yes, vocabulary is important, but there's so much more leading up to that. So let me kind of say it this way, because I think sometimes just wrapping it up in, in a clear package. Your child does not learn to talk by being talked at. He learns by being talked with. Those are two completely different things, and almost everything that you've been told will blur those things together, and it's not helpful. Talking at him is more of a broadcast. Talking with him is building that relationship. One fills the, the empty air, right? And the other actually builds and nurtures through synaptic connections. And once you see it that way, once you understand, then it will really shift, and it also can help you see why I continually go back and saying, "Screens don't build language." A screen is talking at your child in the, in the most purest form, right? It's a broadcast system, right? Color, motion, noise. And it's flat. It cannot see your child and respond to it. It cannot wait for him as he processes or thinks through it. It can't return his serve, So if he coos it just keeps going. If he points to something, it doesn't really notice, right? There's no back or forth, forth. There's no connection because nobody's on the other side. It's, technology And so those apps that light up when you push the button, 'cause many parents will say, "Oh, my kids love those." That's not a conversation though. It's a flat behavior, you push a button. It, uh, the lights up, That's just a reward system. I know also that some of you will push back and say, "But, you know, sh- she has learned all of her colors because of that show," or, "He's picked up, three new words last week that he wasn't saying." And I believe you. That's true. That's measurable. But I want you to consider this difference. That's rote data. That's memorized off of a screen. It is not rich, living in back and forth human connection that actually wires the brain for language processing and higher order thinking. That is data, right? Words can be memorized. Communication though, has to be built, and it's built between two people. So the chatty Cathy isn't winning here, right? She has a lot of noise, and there's very little space to return, right? She is serving and serving and serving, but no one's really playing tennis with her. And yet at the same time, the quiet mom who shares with intention, uh, you know, maybe shares a banana or, or shares the hand washing together, she's in it. She's connected with them. They're doing things, and she's using simple language that connects the action and the feeling and the relationship. So it, it was never about talking more. It's about whether you're in it with him or her, right? So here's the final piece about Riesling and Hart's work, the 30 million word gap. Even if a family hit the word count, If those words were more, "No, stop. Don't touch that. Sit down. I told you," that doesn't build language either. So the quality really matters, and the relationship of building curiosity and engagement over directions, right? So you can have all the words and none of the connection, and you will get very limited outcome, just because there's a pile of words with no warmth or meaning or intention, it won't build that language. So once we started to analyze the data, it was pretty evident, and it's important to understand that. So kids would talk if they could really matters here. When your child isn't talking, the answer is almost never talk more to him or talk harder or just keep pushing him. The answer is to look at the precursors, the connection, the non-verbals, the gestures, the noise making, the back and forth, the playful banter that you will do with your one, two, and three-year-old. The building blocks that have to be in place underneath before words start to really blossom. That is where the real work is, not the volume or the, the number of words that you say, those 30 million words or less, right? So here is your one shift for this week, just one. I want you to take a look at this. I want you to stop counting words, Just put that aside for this week and start trading turns. I want you to really think about how often do I really respond to him or her, or how often do they respond to me? Put down the narrate all day idea. You don't have to kind of be this broadcaster, And just pick one ordinary one-to-one moment and be in it with them, And I want you to hold onto these three words: to be present and purposeful and playful. So to be present, get down in it with them, eye to eye, Feel it with them. And so that means don't do it, you know, half across the room or peeking at your phone or nonchalantly, "Uh-huh, honey. Uh-huh." Be in it with them. Be purposeful, and what that means is really just pull out a few concrete words. Um, don't narrate or have a monologue going. It's, it's nouns and verbs here. And then to be playful, do something kind of funny. You know, if you're getting dressed, take his sock and put it on your ear and then look at him and say, "Does this go here?" And see how he responds. He'll look at you and think, "You've lost your mind, Mama." But that look at you and where he's looking at the sock on your ear and wondering, that's a return. The game has started. We're going back and forth now. So let me make this pretty concrete for you. Take mealtime, hand him, you know, a piece of carrot or an apple or a chunk of meat, and you take a bite of yours, ar, and look at him and say, "Bite, bite, bite. Chew, chew, chew. Swallow." And watch him follow you, And, "Mm, this is good. Swallow." That's it. A couple of words with some action and interest, right? We're sharing this meal together. You bite, you chew. "Mm. Swallow." He watches you, watches your mouth, maybe tries it himself, but the whole lighting up, eye contact with you. And so he's gonna try it. He's gonna try to get you to do it, maybe even feed you. That's that social exchange, that serve and return, uh, serve and return with, sharing a piece of meat together. No flashcards, no drills, no questions, just you together sharing a little food, Now let me give you the most forgiving tool you've got, and it happens to fix both of these camps, the chatty Kathy and the quiet, reserved mom. It's books. but not in the way that you think. Most of us hear you have to read to your child, and that's absolutely true. But we might feel like we need to read every word on the page from cover to cover in the order. But with your one, two, and three-year-old, that's not the most beneficial use of a book. they're gonna get frustrated. They're gonna check out. So I want you to use it more like a facilitating tool, Open up to a page and just share it and look at the nouns and the actions. Look, a dog. The doggy is running. Oh, no, now he's muddy. He jumped in the puddle. And you don't have to narrate, just talk about the pictures, Look at it. Oh, look, it's a tractor. Beep, beep, beep, says the tractor. So you're not technically reading. You're using it, like I said, as a launchpad or a facilitator. And here's why I love it so much Because it rescues the chatty Cathy, giving her boundaries so she doesn't have to just talk nonstop, that it, it gives her time to start and stop. And it also rescues the mom who's kinda quiet, right? And it also is a very good tool for dads. I can't tell you how many times dads have told me, "Wow, you know, I don't really know what to talk to my baby or my toddler," or, "I have a hard time understanding him." But using books really helps because it gives them a script, and they can play off of it. And sometimes the child is really engaged with you, and sometimes it's just sharing the books and just naming things. So, your child can talk about the boy on the bike or the girl on the swing or the dog in the mud or the tractor in the field, any of it. And you can begin to expand out into their imagination. Now, don't get me wrong here. There is definitely a place and a time for reading rich stories from start to finish. That's what we call the gestalt or the whole language, and they need to hear that rhythm. They need to hear the storyline and, and extra vocabulary. All of that is important, too. But when they're really little, when you're looking to spend time with them, maybe after you've finished a meal and then you bring out a book and you just talk about a page or two, it's, it's a good facilitating tool to use that gives you boundaries and gives you a visual tool to share in the moment. And it, it tells you, like I said with lots of parents, it will give you that script. It tells you what to do, and so you don't just have to fill up with nothing, right? Um, another time is really in the bathtub because I think your child is, is stuck there in the tub. He's not gonna run around. But you can do easy things like, you know, pouring water on his feet and getting him to engage with you and say, "Ooh, pour, pour, pour," or, "Wet, wet, wet." And he can kick, he can splash, and you can label those things and be in that moment together. And it's just playing in the bathtub, And the other piece to all of this is to give them time, that you can say something and then look at their reaction. Give them that white space to come up with an answer, You want that give and take, that volley. Think of tennis again. that kind of social exchange is a lot different than just labeling things randomly or n- labeling body parts in front of the mirror, which is, which is good, too, but you want to put it in context. And they, that's where they really start to, to not only understand, but to code it and use it in real life. So I always go back to, if you're worried about them expanding their own vocabulary, I think one real social exchange beats you talking to them, you know, with an extra thousand words each day. Say less, make it connect and relatable, and then wait. Give them time. And I think that last one, a lot of parents skip, and a lot of professionals skip, too, that they, they feel uncomfortable in the silence. And with little ones, it's all about connection. It's about that feel and then do and then say. And so give them time to take his turn, we're going to keep this conversation going, 'cause I really think it's important. And so next episode, I'm going to talk about another phrase that parents hear a lot that I don't think serves you. You'll hear, "He'll talk when he's ready." And I want to give you a little heads-up here. He'll talk when the language is built. There's no readiness about it, and there's a difference between those two, and, and we're gonna dive into that. And then after that, I'll also talk about what actually has to come first, that foundation underneath the words, and that it supports language acquisition, language mastery over time. So if this is hitting close to home, here's your next step, and it's free. I pulled the real foundation into a guide, and it's called The 10 Things That Come Before Talking, and these are the building blocks that I just referenced that are underneath the spoken language. If you want to know whether your child is building that foundation and where he is right now, go and grab it down below. the link is in the description. It's free, it's simple, and it will give you clarity instead of Googling at 2:00 in the morning, If you want to get ahead of this, that's where you start. You don't need to do this alone, and you certainly don't have to do it perfectly. You just have to do it with him or her. So God bless, and I'll see you next week in Talking Toddlers